Q&A Summary - 06/07/23
This week's livestream focused on Sailing's Reward Space! Topics included:
Thanks to Mod Ayiza (Lead Community Manager), Mod Elena (Senior Game Designer), and Mod Husky (Game Designer) for their insights!
DISCLAIMER: Livestreams are a glimpse into the ongoing creative process at Jagex. JMods are speaking off-the-cuff and their comments are not intended to be read in the same way as prepared updates from the company. Please keep this in mind when discussing the Q&A!
Missed the live stream? Check out the transcript below!
Question #1
What would be an idea for the Sailing skillcape perk?
Mod Elena
It's a good question. It could be Teleport to the Great Conch or just Teleport to your ship. We talked about those as spells, but they could work differently. We also talked about stuff that impacts your ship, like Mako’s Sail which always makes it seem like you're with the wind and you'll always get that speed buff - that could be an alternate way of getting that effect or some other Quality of Life feature applied to your ship! Maybe you luff less often.
Mod Husky
Skillcape perks definitely aren't consistent with that. Some of them are straight gameplay buffs. For example, you've got the Herblore one that allows you to use Grimy Herbs when making potions - cool, that's an entire step I don't have to do, and that affects my gameplay!
Then you've got others that are just Teleport to Guild which is a good standard one. The Agility one also makes it so you can't fail obstacles - that's directly gameplay buff. They're definitely not consistent, and they don't need to be, either. If we ever have a Sailing Guild somewhere out at sea that the players have to find, it makes sense to teleport there.
Let us know your cool ideas! It’s probably a very later thing that we decide if the skill is locked in and we're in development. We can then think about what cool perk the skillcape can have and shoot it around the team, asking ‘’You've all playtested Sailing. What perks should we add to the skillcape?’’
Mod Ayiza
I'm definitely voting for the option to transmog into a turtle. I'm going full-on with the turtle mode now - I want Turtle power!
Question #2
Will Sailing include a skilling pet in its rewards?
Mod Husky & Elena
Probably!
Mod Elena
Do you want one? If so, let’s add it!
Mod Husky
It also depends on how it comes. Every time you get Sailing XP drop, you get a chance at a pet similar to a gathering skill; or is it tied to an activity at sea? Because we definitely have pets that are tied to a specific activity, and others are tied to the entire skill. I can see options for either or both with this update.
Mod Ayiza
Chat likes the idea of either a boat, an anchor, a seagull, a turtle or a crab!
Question #3
A question about the use of cannonballs: Would it be a separate cannonball from the one used by the Dwarf Multicannon? I would prefer a different cannonball type, which would give another item for the Slayer monsters/bosses drop table.
Mod Ayiza
There are other questions tied to this one, so let’s go over them together. They are:
- Smithing Cannonballs from Steel all the way up to Rune is really interesting! Will these be usable with the Dwarf Multicannon?
- What will you do to differentiate ship cannon balls from other cannon balls so it's not confusing for new players and to make it not feel arbitrary that you can't use them in the multicannon?
Mod Husky
I think these three questions state different viewpoints. The first person is saying ‘’I want a different cannonball’’. The second one is like ‘’This seems really cool, I could get stronger cannonballs. Can I use the stronger cannonballs with my Dwarf Multicannon?’’ Then the other person is saying ‘’We need to differentiate, but how are you going to differentiate it? Because it might feel strange if you do differentiate it.’’
We talked about this a lot, and we would like them to be separate. Dwarf Multicannon doesn't need to be stronger - it is already incredibly powerful for what it does. It can be explained quite easily in the game by the fact that you've got a cannon mould to make those cannonballs. For the Dwarf Multicannon specifically, maybe you make these with a different mould - they’re either a larger cannonball or a smaller cannonball etc. It could be interesting if it was a larger cannonball that you could make faster, but like it's only one per bar, or multiple bars per cannonball.
We as a team definitely feel that we want to separate them and that we have the tools to explain it in the lore.
Mod Ayiza
Makes sense! I don't think it would be all that confusing to have different cannonballs - one for your ship cannon and the other for the Dwarf Multicannon. There’s no real difference I see from having arrows and bolts or javelins.
Mod Husky
Even though our concerns are to not power creep the Dwarf Multicannon, that doesn't mean that there couldn't be a single specific cannon facility - just a single one out of a Plethora - which could take a Dwarven-style cannon that takes the old one. It's the only one that can use that.
The thing about shipbuilding and facilities is that it is entirely open to having a certain thing for a different need. We’re less concerned about using existing cannonballs in the ships and more concerned about using more powerful cannonballs with a Dwarf Multicannon. That's why we would separate them.
Question #4
Can the Hand Cannon from back in the day be a reward attainable from Sailing?
Mod Elena
We could look into it. Again, very specific rewards like this are things that we're going to be looking at during the development phase - we'll bring all of this up again and have another conversation about it.
It does remind me of the conversation we had really early on in Sailing, where we talked about what Sailing can possibly be, about pirates and all that. In a lot of pop culture, you have stuff like guns related to pirates, and we were considering ‘’Should we go down that route?’’
But it does feel like quite a different age to what we have in Gielinor right now, doesn't it? We probably don’t want to go down that route just yet!
Mod Husky
This is a recurrent theme throughout some of the questions I've seen, and it's come up a ton in Discord, too. We tend to think on a slightly more abstract level as far as the reward space, and players tend to jump straight into specifics like ‘’Can we have this specific reward from Sailing?’’
In a lot of cases, it's ‘’Maybe, I don't know, it depends if players want it’’ and it seems like such a cop-out answer. But let's use the hand cannon example… If we said ‘’You're going to get the Hand Cannon from Sailing’’ we'd suggest that as a really good reward with a very specific effect that players have in mind. Then players go ‘’I’m voting no to Sailing because I don't like the Hand Cannon’’. That is something that we didn't really want because we're not even attached to the Hand Cannon!
If we pitch very specific rewards, players could get very invested in that - that could steal the narrative entirely away from what we want to get across. Our approach is ‘’Let's look at the reward space in general and see if players agree on the reward space’’.
It's something that we saw a lot with Warding version 3 (and if we had a version 4 of the blog, that as well) that didn’t have battle wards, but players were still talking about battle wards up to the Poll day, even though we scrapped it immediately after seeing players didn't want it. It's just about making sure we don't give potentially contentious specifics that players don't understand that we've scrapped from the design. Since there's a lot of information going on, it's very hard to digest something as large in design space as a skill as it is.
We're obviously trying to break this down into 4 or 5 blocks, instead of the approach that Warding did, where there was a 40-page design document that players had to read, and then updating the amendments to the 40-page design document.
A lot of this is just to make sure that we get players on the same page and agreeing with us on a high level before we look into specifics. Because if Sailing passes the lock-in poll, we'll definitely be coming to you guys with follow-up Poll questions like ‘’Here's an idea for a very specific reward from Sailing. Is this something that you would like in the game?’’
Then that means we can have the ‘pass or fail’ moment whether people like that specific reward without necessarily being related to the skill! I hope that makes sense as to why we're taking this approach.
Mod Elena
On that topic, I also saw a question from chat. Someone asked what the difference between the Hand Cannon example and some of the specifics mentioned in the blog is. I think a lot of the specifics that we have mentioned, mainly reward you internally within the Sailing skill. For example, Mako’s Sails sound incredibly powerful, but only within Sailing! Whilst it's implied that the Hand Cannon affects the rest of the game, and suddenly, it has a way bigger impact than an internal reward.
Question #5
Will players be able to attack monsters from their boats with ranged or mage in addition to using cannons that are on the ship?
Mod Elena
It's an interesting topic, and I'm not sure whether we can definitively say ‘yes’ or ‘no’ right now. My inclination is to say probably not because immediately my mind jumps to: What are all the ways you can abuse that? Can I sit on my ship next to a monster on land and just safe-spot it that way? Doesn't sound ideal.
That said, there will be plenty of opportunities for you to train in traditional combat via Sailing. That could be on your ship - if you're boarded by a pirate, for example. Maybe we have a sea monster attack; imagine a Kraken tentacle on your ship that you need to attack. Or whether you go off your ship; onto a different ship, onto the sea monster that you're fighting, or onto an island to do stuff, there will be plenty of opportunities to do that as well. I think maybe it's easier if we just separate those two. That's my early thinking, at least. How do you feel, Husky?
Mod Husky
It's interesting because we definitely spoke about traditional combat on a ship. As you mentioned, we were like, “Oh, a pirate has boarded my ship. Of course, I can cast spells, shoot them or attack them with my Scimitar”. My gut thought was actually to allow it. But I'd never thought about safe spotting from land. So maybe it's just if you're on a ship, you can only attack entities at sea.
I know that when we were talking about how to make cannons feel more impactful, we were thinking - early thoughts, not confirmed - what if cannons were dealing damage in the x10 factor, where sea creatures have like 10s of 1000s of health, and you're dealing like hundreds of damage to them; to make it feel more epic and on a larger scale? At that point, if you were shooting or using magic, maybe all the cannon facilities are taken on board, and you have your entire crew, but they're at least helping pepper the creature with 10s and 20s and 30s. Perhaps that could be a cool way to do it.
I'm cautious about mentioning the whole multiplying by 10 damage. I know that's what RuneScape did with Constitution. But I feel like that's separate when we're just talking about the grand scale of a sea creature being massive because I think the idea that these creatures are larger than life is a fun and exciting part of Sailing me. When you think about all these creatures that live out in the depths of the sea, that's a big identity of what makes the sea so thrilling and exciting for a lot of players. All of these are things that we would inevitably want to talk to players about though - post lock-in, maybe during beta, to see how things feel.
It might just feel really janky to shoot mage things over your ship, or it could be really fine. It's hard to know where they're doing it, especially because the ship could be moving. What happens if you're auto-casting in Mage and then you move away? How does that work if I'm no longer in range? So you'd kind of just dance across the boats trying to get in the range - like when you're trying to shoot a black demon at the back of the cage in the dungeon near Watchtower?
These are just early thoughts because we haven't really spoken about it too much - you're getting the unfiltered dev initial thoughts.
Mod Ayiza
A quick summary of the first part - I won't try and summarise Husky's comment about what combat scaling could look like if it was ever to be a thing (remember, that's an if, not a when). For now, in regards to attacking monsters from boats as ranged/mage, it's probably not going to be happening. However, if you were looking to get traditional combat experience whilst doing Sailing, you will have options such as other NPCs, maybe even players boarding your boat, that you would then have to attack with traditional attack styles granting XP in the normal way, or going off to places that you can only access via Sailing. But in terms of ship combat, we're going to stick to just being Sailing-related experience, most likely. Who knows, though?! There's still a whole lot of work for us to do. We haven't developed it yet. So that could change, and we will keep you updated.
Question #6
How will XP work for all activities at sea? If we're doing trawler fishing, but there's only one trawler net facility, does only the one player using that facility get fishing XP? Or is all XP shared equally with everyone on board?
Mod Husky
There's definitely scope for different sorts of secondary activities to work slightly differently from each other in terms of how rewards are given out. But generally speaking, I would be against players getting free XP for doing nothing. If you're just on the ship, but someone else is doing the fishing, should you get the XP? The grey area argument is that someone had to be moving the ship. We were talking about dropping the net and following it for this specific facility. So where is that actual fishing XP drop coming in from?
Let's talk theoretically: There's a facility that someone's operating and that has given them XP because that's how we're defining this Sailing for gameplay. To me, it would make sense that if you wanted multiple players to do that, you would need to build multiple of those facilities, and they would all take one each; or maybe we open up facilities so multiple people can use them at once, in some cases like this. But generally, I wouldn't want people to get XP by just standing on the boat and doing nothing - that would be something I would be against doing.
Question #7
If we're hunting Slayer monsters at sea, does everyone on the boat get Slayer experience? Will some form of Slayer Partnering come back?
Mod Elena
I imagine that would be similar to what Husky explained now. We could look into ways multiple people on the ship could participate. But if you're just standing on the ship, you shouldn't get a contribution for it. If you're helping, sure! If you're doing nothing, no.
Mod Husky
It sounds like an entire system needs to be developed, thought out and designed - separate for this piece of content that we haven't gotten to yet because we know the content itself sounds really fun. But maybe this is the idea of the finer details when you fleshed them out, put them into a design blog later and decided if you guys want this activity in the game.
I definitely saw some concern that if we were offering sea monster hunting, then it's a combined Sailing & Hunter & Slayer activity, but it's giving Slayer XP, it's grindable, and it's not on task. The fact that a Slayer Master didn't assign you it breaks the Slayer’s core gameplay loop.
So we could have a world where you're assigned to kill these creatures, and that requires a Slayer level. Theoretically, you could also do that as a group - that could be one design. Alternatively, we could say it just requires a Slayer level to have the knowledge to slay the creature - Slayer is the requirement, but not the XP you're getting from the activity. That could be another route we go down.
This just highlights that a lot of the activities themselves would need their own specific blogs that are fleshed out and worked through with the community to reach a design that they're happy with. But we have ideas for how things could work.
Question #8
Will the bosses that come with this new skill have a Slayer requirement? Will those bosses be Slayer task only, like Kraken, for instance?
Mod Husky
If we introduced a new Slayer boss, I'd expect a Slayer boss to have a Slayer requirement and to be a Slayer task only. This question doesn't read to me as a sea monster hunting for what it's worth. This reads as an expansion of Slayer content that exists out at sea, so I'd expect it to follow Slayer rules. There is certainly room in the reward space to introduce a new Slayer boss that you can only kill on task while at sea if the players want it.
Mod Elena
I think there's also space to introduce bosses that aren't tied to Slayer as well. It could just be one that's plopped down on an island somewhere. You go fight them, and you don't need anything other than getting there.
Mod Husky
Absolutely.
Mod Ayiza
To be honest, we'd be missing a trick if bosses were coming out of Sailing, and they all were Slayer-only bosses. There has to be some variety; otherwise, I wouldn't like it.
Mod Elena
Just because YOUR Slayer level…
Mod Ayiza
No, I've got good Slayer on both of my accounts! I've got like 88 on the Ironman and 95 on the main. I can do the content!
Mod Elena
Alright, that’s respectable.
Mod Ayiza
I think it would be a bit boring, especially if you were locked into having to have a Slayer task just to be able to do content. I like being able to dip into bosses. Imagine that there are three new bosses, and you've got to get lucky and get a Slayer task for each one of them. One of them could be a Slayer one; the others can be generic.
Mod Husky
Someone in the chat's completely right as well: Sailing is the vessel to get to some content. That's what we've been iterating throughout this design process - once you reach that content, it doesn't necessarily have to be Sailing content anymore. Once you're on an island, you could be considered doing traditional content - like a quest, a gathering skill, a production skill, a Slayer task, or a mini-game. Those could be cool; I needed to utilise my new skill in Sailing to reach that content.
There was a journey involved in that process as well - having to build the ship to gain access to it, dealing with the things that crop up along the way etc.; but once you're there, that is not necessarily Sailing content. It could be, there could be a Sailing mini-game you reach at sea! But it's not set in stone that needs to be either way. It would be very tailored to “Here's a piece of content that we'd like to be at sea, and here are the details. It's either Sailing content, or it's not Sailing content”, and players would vote as to whether they want that piece of content specifically.
Question #9
If a Magical Ship in a Bottle is added, can we get a display to place it within our POHs?
Mod Elena
It could be a nice way to store ships when you don't want to sail them - have a little shelf and put a couple of ships up there.
Mod Husky
For those who maybe didn't read it, the Ship in a Bottle was the idea for ‘’How could we make a ship storable in an inventory?’’. People who have seen the Ship in a Bottle will probably think of Pirates the Caribbean - it's definitely a trope that has existed with sea content generally. So the idea is you uncork your ship, and boom, it's there! Now I can sail on it! It’s such a cool, thematic way to store a ship in a single inventory slot.
We also talked about cool ways, like whatever creature you kill randomly drops a Ship in a Bottle! It has this mystery of ‘’What level what ship is this? Is it damaged, or do I need to repair it?’’ Or maybe you pickpocket a Ship in a Bottle from an NPC, and this time the mystery is ‘’What ship did I steal from this elf?’’ These are random ideas because we could have the ship as an Inventory Slot!
Mod Ayiza
Can I leave people on my ship just before I put it into the bottle and then be like a Pokémon master but not of Pokémon?
Mod Elena
With your crewmates or other players?
Mod Ayiza
Imagine capturing a top pager where we’re like, “Well… my pet now.” Just summon a guy in high gear, and let’s do some content.
Mod Husky
Players recruiting Nieve onto their crew? Then putting Nieve in a Ship in a Bottle, and now they own Nieve?
Mod Ayiza
We could cater towards those that wanted Taming! Throw a few NPCs or pets on your ship and capture them in a bottle; now, you've suddenly got a pet in your bag that you can take wherever you want!
Mod Elena
Is that how you get the ship out again? You just throw it and break the bottle?
Mod Ayiza
Yeah, just throw it. You’re just like, “Go, Oak Battleship. I choose you!”
Question #10
If we have the "Ship in a Bottle" item form, would we be able to board anywhere, or would it be limited to ports?
Mod Husky
Have you ever tried to ride your bike indoors in Pokémon?
Mod Elena
It’s not the time nor place for this.
Mod Husky
What would happen if you're mid-fighting the Wardens in the middle of Tombs of Amascut and you have a Ship in a Bottle and say, “ I'm just going to uncork my ship right now!” I don't know what players expect to happen. Does the Warden just get crushed? We would need you to do it on a port!
Mod Ayiza
You are saying it would pretty much have to be limited to ports; I presume the main reason for the Ship in a Bottle is to be able to store a ship in your inventory or be able to get them as drops, as opposed to being able to just suddenly board your ship in the middle of the Al Kharid Desert.
Mod Husky
Yeah! Say there's a shop that sells you your starter ship or a bunch of starter ships to get you on your way. It's a cool way to do shop stock. It's like, ‘’Cool, there is a basic ship, a basic small ship, a basic large ship,’’ for example. So you go, “Okay, I'm gonna start off, I want a new large ship; I'm gonna start off with a basic large ship.” Then you know exactly what you're getting. It starts off with a bunch of basic facilities, and then you choose what you want to remove, add, upgrade, etc.
Having a Ship in a Bottle really fills so many purposes, from a very practical standpoint for the player, but also really cool, in-depth world-building. Because already I'm thinking, this is where we were talking about why you might need a magic level to do it.
How does this work? Are you now glassblowing a new thing from glass and then enchanting the glass to be able to do this? Is it then a wizard that helps shrink your ship to put it into a bottle? What if that's now a spell scroll that another player can use, or maybe they have the magic level to do it themselves? Or maybe some people at ports can provide the service for you. Then you start getting into these cool lore-building things that attach themselves to Sailing just by having this cool idea of a Ship in a Bottle. We talk about many ideas like this in the Lore Integration blog we're currently working on. But yeah, you can attach a lot of cool mathematics to it.
Question #11
Some of the rewards, like the 'Magical Ship in a Bottle' - while cool - seem odd to just be immediately available to players and would fit more naturally (in my opinion) as a Quest reward. Is the team open to taking some of the more outlandish rewards (certain crewmembers, Ship-in-bottle, maybe Mako's Sail) and adding them later as Quest rewards?
Mod Elena
We must still decide where things come from and when in our journey. If Sailing passes the Lock-in Poll, that is one of the first things we'll do - We'll sit down and plan out what you unlock when and really try to map out that journey.
I think it's a big Quality of Life early on to move your ship to port. Say that you're out Sailing, then you teleport out, and now your ship is just stuck there. What happens to that? We need some sort of retrieval service or a teleport to essentially bring your ship back to Port.
The Ship in a Bottle could do that! When you teleport out, the ship automatically goes back into the bottle. If we don't give the Ship in a Bottle early on, we need good alternative things, but then the Ship in a Bottle would give additional Quality of Life.
Mod Husky
The idea that you have this network of all these problems that you experienced early on, or maybe slight inconveniences that become solved over time - that's just gameplay. That's the fundamental unravelling of the web of interconnected content and getting rewards from things.
We have to decide what's appropriate - we obviously don't want things to be absolutely unwieldy from the get-go just for the sake of having them as unlocked, but at the same time, having player power and unlocking by progressing through the content is fundamental MMO gameplay.
Mod Elena
Ship in a Bottle would be a cool milestone to work towards, though! ‘’I just want Level 50 Sailing so that I can get Ship in a Bottle’’ kind of thing!
Question #12
How do you plan on keeping the new resources valuable as time passes? It is not uncommon for supply/crafting items to crash in price over time. Is there a plan to avoid this problem and maintain this space in sailing for profitable gathering?
Question #13
Can the new (choppable) woods be burned or fletched into Arrow Shafts?
Mod Elena
It’s the same as Husky was saying - these are just very specific rewards that we could or could not do, depending on what players want when we get to this development. I'm not opposed to it. I think it would be good for the game to have more things to tie into other skills genuinely. But I don't think it has to either - there are logs in the game that can't be fletched.
Take Mahogany Logs, for example. You can only make a stock from them; you can’t make traditional things like bows. Therefore, it makes sense that different resources work differently. I would like to make them burnable, but it depends entirely on what the player base wants. Basically, we need to propose where it fits in between the other logs. It's a very detailed development territory.
Mod Husky
Burnable is free. Because we're not worried about the product being burnable, we could set that this new log becomes an amount of Firemaking XP, and if players want to use it for that, they can.
The fletching is the difficult part. Based on the ramble I just had to be desirable to fletch into, we would want whatever you're fletching. Otherwise, what's the point? Arrow Shafts are free in a similar way. Now they give a bunch of Arrow Shafts - we know what Arrow Shafts are for, but that's still tied separately.
I like to look at each log and talk about these things more openly with the community. It doesn't sit well with me that Redwood Logs can't be made into a Short Bow or Plank. A bunch of hardwoods in the game tend to fall into ‘this is used for Construction’. Then you've got softer woods, which are used for Weaponry. Redwoods sit at neither!
Therefore, as a designer, I'd rather say, ‘’Here is a category of logs, and here are the rules they follow’’. I generally would prefer to be consistent. However, sometimes as a developer, you have to break consistency for what is either better for the game or better gameplay. So it's hard to say we need to be consistent to the death of it. But I think you should have a good reason for not doing something outside of just ‘’It would be nice, but we don't have time’’.
Mod Elena
I also like the idea of tying it to things we don't traditionally do - tying it to another skill in a new way! One thing we could do for Firemaking: What if you could use Firemaking to light these new logs on fire, instead of just being a Firemaking training method, it could be used to smoke some of the new fish you can catch! This way, you can get smoked fish, and that's just a new way of cooking.
Question #14
Will there be a design space for unique crew members, where different crew members (that you got as rewards from different content) are more or less useful for different encounters? So long as all the available crew members feel unique and useful, I don't care much about the complexity of the crew system.
Mod Elena
That's a good question. It's something that we're actually not sure where to go with, either. We could see the potential of crewmates having different abilities - some are really good at this one thing, and others are really good at this other thing. Someone may be an expert Cannoneer, but he is really bad at fishing, whilst someone else is really good at fishing. That could be a way to go.
We have a question about this in the survey linked in the blog. Let us know how you feel about it because we're open to the relatively simple crew system. There's beauty in simplicity! I just want to automate stuff; I don't want to think about it. I just want you to fix my sails now and then. Trim the sails - that's it, that's your job.
On the other hand, you find it interesting to figure out who's the best person for this job and level them up as they go along. It makes sense that they would get better at shooting cannons the more they do it. It's entirely up to you - the community - to let us know how you want it to work!
Question #15
How detailed will the polling be? Will it be "Do you want Sailing?" or "Do you want boat races, do you want mining reso, etc?"
Mod Ayiza
In our final blog of Sailing - which will come shortly after we finish up with Lore and Integration - we’ll basically go over our whole summary of all of the stages of Refinement into one condensed blog so that you can see everything that we've worked on (in as much detail as we can fit into that, at least).
There we’ll basically detail exactly how we're going to be approaching Polling going forward in terms of not only the question ‘’Should we add this skill in the first place?’’ but also what potentially would come after that, as well as what level of detail that you should come to expect.
Therefore, regarding questions around Polling, let's wait on those for now. Basically, we’re committing to showing you exactly what we intend to do regarding Polling. For now, the first question will most likely be a simple question of ‘’Should Sailing be added to the game?’’. Then we will go on to further refined questions to nail down the specifics of different features, mechanics, rewards areas, etc. We've still got some work to do on our end. We're still planning and finalising it all, but we will share it with you once we're there!
You can also discuss this update on our official forums, on the 2007Scape subreddit, the Steam forums, or the community-led OSRS Discord in the #gameupdate channel. For more info on the above content, check out the official Old School Wiki.
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